Question:
Hey, I was visiting your website for the Tanner scale test. After I finished it I got curious and explored the website more as it wasn’t the first time I visited. I looked through the archives and came upon the post, “Should we move on from conservative religion?” I read through it and the question you referenced in that, “Don’t you dare change my mind, but why is homosexuality bad?“
I wanted to point out some things. For context, I’m an atheist. I was born into the LDS church and decided to leave later on.
1. You didn’t answer the original question
I found it disappointing how you didn’t answer the original question and instead tried to scare somebody into your religion. I think it would’ve been interesting to see your opinion on it.
2. A different interpretation of one of the Bible verses you quoted
I also just wanted to offer a different interpretation of one of the verses you quoted, “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” You’re probably just going to shrug it off as it does sound very “new age Christian,” and there is no reason you should listen to atheists about verse interpretations. but I believe the meaning of this verse, as it was written, was that there is no such thing as “tribes.” We’re all the same, we all bleed, we all think and feel. What I think it means by “there is neither Jew nor Greek,” is that nationality and sex and whether you’re a slave or not doesn’t matter. And so is male or female. Because if you strip our bodies away, all that remains is our souls. And our souls do not have sex or race. And it’s impossible for one human being to own another human. Again, this is just what I think it meant, as it was written.
3. You seem disrespectful to people who disagree
You seemed disrespectful to the original person who asked a question. In the original question, when they were only questioning their faith, you gave a somewhat respectful response. But then later, when they responded that they didn’t think they wanted to be Christian anymore, you immediately jumped to pick them apart and belittle them. Discussions should be respectful, and I want to keep it that way here as well.
4. You don’t seem very credible
I’m not here to make fun of you, so I’m just going to say you seem credible when it comes to religion. I was impressed by the amount of information you provided about early records of the Bible. (It would be nice to see sources.) I was not, however, impressed by your knowledge about research on homosexuality.
First things first: All major medical institutions agree that homosexuality and transgenderism are natural. The sources you cited were old and ranged from the 1800s – 2010. Bias against homosexuals was way higher at the time. I guarantee most of them, if not all, of the sources you cited, have since changed their conclusions and found scientifically the unbiased truth – homosexuality is natural and is not a choice. Homosexuality is not a choice in the same way your attraction to the opposite gender is not a choice.
Your statement that homosexuality is deadly may have been accurate at the time, but the specific source you put for that goes all the way back to the 1800s. This is a time range when gay people were wrapped up in carpets with hay and set on fire. Homosexuals reported then surely would have been executed or murdered.
AIDS was more prevalent among gay and bisexual people in the past. Thanks to the stigma of having an STD and the untrustworthy research done, of course, it’s going to be higher for the time. And it is still high today, not because homosexuality is dangerous, but because of the bias and lack of research. I could continue on several other points but I have to get to the main point.
I noticed an overwhelming amount of your evidence being Bible verses. It makes sense considering your expertise, but does no good trying to persuade people who don’t believe in the Bible. It only has credibility to other Christians and yourself. You’re pretty much citing yourself, to prove yourself.
Answer:
I find it amusing when people write trying to sound like they’ve used this site but then mix up their “facts.” The “Should we move on from conservative religion?” is found on the boy’s version of this site. The question “Don’t you dare change my mind, but why is homosexuality bad?” was mentioned in answering one of the questions the young man asked, but it should be noted that it is from a church site that I also run. Neither question appears in the girl’s site to which you submitted your complaint. The first page of both the boy’s and girl’s sites states that the information presented is done so from the viewpoint of Christian teaching. That you are upset that a Christian is referencing the Bible to answer questions is ironic, especially since the second question was found on a church website. I understand that you don’t accept the teachings of the Bible, but it still remains a source and for those desiring to follow God, it is a quality source.
I’ve noticed over the years that when people are presented with information that they refuse to accept, an easy response is to claim that their question was not answered. The claim is false. It was answered. You just didn’t like the answer. I don’t write to please people. I teach people what the Bible says about various matters. “For am I now seeking the favor of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a bond-servant of Christ” (Galatians 1:10).
I’m sure you are pleased with yourself that you found a verse to pull up and tried to explain it in a way that supports your claim. But that is not how you determine what was said.
“Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise” (Galatians 3:24-29).
“Tribes” are not mentioned in the context. Paul’s point is that in Christianity, a person’s nationality, economic status, or gender does not make a difference in whether a person is a Christian. In the book of Galatians, Paul deals with Jewish teachers who came into the region claiming that people had to become Jews in addition to being Christians to be saved. Paul gives numerous lines of reasoning to show the claim is false. He is asserting that people can be saved without changing their nationality, economic status, or gender. In a sense, your view is correct that people are people. However, it doesn’t mean people can be saved without conforming to God’s teachings. A bit later, Paul argues that people have to change.
“But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God” (Galatians 5:17-21).
In regards to the claim of belittling, I re-read the question about religion. I pointed out the flaws in the young man’s reasoning, but disagreeing with another person’s position is not belittling him. I treated him as a reasoning person and he responded with an emotional tirade. Yes, I showed him the flaws in his reasoning, just as I’m pointing out your own. Whether you accept my analysis or not is up to you.
I’m unimpressed with the current popular trend of claiming homosexuality is natural. As I stated, I teach the Bible and I did cite a few secular studies that showed the inherent harm in homosexual acts. Even common sense shows that the male body is designed to have sex with a female body. That is natural. As commonly done when faced with contradicting evidence, you attempt to limit the source of acceptable evidence. The sources I cited in the answer about homosexuality ranged from 1990 to 2010, mostly because that answer was written in 2012. You tried to make it sound as if I used outdated arguments by falsely claiming I used sources dating back to the 1800s. Using false statements in your arguments doesn’t help your position and it doesn’t make you appear reasonable. You also allude to how some people caught up in the sin of homosexuality were mistreated in the distant past as if to say that those who oppose homosexuality also desire to mistreat homosexuals. It is again a false allegation without supporting evidence. I do desire to talk people out of their sins, but that is true regardless of the sin, be it homosexuality, fornication, adultery, lying, stealing, etc. I, like most Christians, use reasoning to show that God’s way works best. “For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ” (II Corinthians 10:3-5).
I’m glad that you do admit that STDs are higher among those practicing homosexuality both in the past and in the present day. You claim that it is because of bias and a lack of research, but clearly, that is not the case. After all, you asserted “All major medical institutions agree that homosexuality and transgenderism are natural.” That would imply a lack of bias. Thus, I conclude that the point made still stands.
Finally, while a temporary desire to be different in gender is found in some individuals, that doesn’t equate to being a natural phenomenon. A desire that results in the use of artificial chemicals and extensive surgeries is hardly natural. The last I checked, the medical evidence still weighs against transgenderism being a normal state for individuals.